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Ep. 1 Jumping Into the Food Industry and Validating Your Idea


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About:

In Episode 1 of Feast and Fortune, the Kevins, Co-founders of immi, discuss the inspiration, motivations, and challenges behind their jump from tech to building a food CPG company.

They cover various topics including: how to come up with a food concept, how to validate your idea, and how they applied these learnings in the process of coming up with and validating their food concept for immi.

Transcript:

immi Podcast Episode 1 - 11:2:19, 9.55 AM

KLee: Welcome to Episode 1 of Feast and Fortune presented by immi.

[00:00:04] We are kicking this off as an experiment. I think yesterday or maybe two days ago KChan and I were sitting and we were thinking about just some things that we really wanted to start ourselves.

[00:00:19] Things we wanted to learn, things we want to share with everyone. People we wanted to meet and it all felt like it made sense to kick off a podcast. So that's where we are.

[00:00:29] KChan: Yeah, we usually have a lot of these conversations internally. So sometimes it's nice to keep it on the record

[00:00:35] KLee: and the crinkling the cinkling. I don't even know what that term is that you hear in the back the clinking that you hear is our is wine glasses. Every Friday, we typically do a happy hour for an hour and today we are using this happy hour to drink and do this podcast episode. Yeah.

[00:00:54] All right, so I think you guys probably don't know too much about us at this point. We are the Kevin's I'm Kevin Lee and I'm Kevin Chanthasiriphan. But we also go by KChan and KLee and we are the co-founders of immi, a better-for-you Asian American food company.

[00:01:16] And we're going to dive a little bit more into the origins behind the company, why we're doing this, what our personal mission is and really just how we got off the ground in the early days.

[00:01:28] KChan: So hopefully for folks listening out there, this is somewhat interesting and mostly entertaining.

[00:01:34] KLee: And the real goal for us is you know part of it again as I just mentioned before is we wanted to share a little bit more about the journey.

[00:01:42] KChan, talked about this where we are already talking about this during the week, but there's plenty of people out there who are interested in the behind-the-scenes of how a food CPG business or just a food business in general gets off the ground.

[00:01:55] And I think the earliest days of the company are really where a lot of the fun happens. Also where a lot of the craziness happens.

[00:02:02] KChan: Yeah, and we really view this as a super candid opportunity to share with you guys, you know our successes and more importantly our follies and our failures because there's a lot of things that we're learning and we're learning along the way.

[00:02:17] It's easy to say in hindsight that you know exactly where you're going but the best we can often do is point a direction that we want to go and kind of wander our way there.

[00:02:32] KLee: Definitely and throughout future episodes you're going to hear us talk about different aspects of the business where we will kind of double down on specific areas of the business that we're probably dealing with at the moment and it's top of mind.

[00:02:48] But you'll also hear us bring in guests, other food founders, other food operators, executives. People who've dealt with very similar problems, and it's again another way for us to share more around what actually happens behind the scenes but also a way for us to learn and meet other people in the industry. So we're super pumped glad to have you join us for episode 1.

[00:03:10] Awesome. So for episode 1 KChan and I thought that we would share a little bit more around the origin story of immi and we will kind of interweave some of the lessons that we've learned along the way and deep dive also into different parts of the earliest ages in future episodes. So KChan why don't you kick us off.

[00:03:34] Tell us a little bit more about your background. Like how did you even end up in this and why are you sitting on this couch with me?

[00:03:40] KChan: Yeah. Yeah. So this is this is super random. But I've been a product manager for the last eight years most recently worked at a small company called Facebook, which some of you folks may know and I've always been in technology, never food.

[00:03:59] And for my time on Facebook, I always thought that being at a big company like Facebook, it would be the most amazing experience ever. I held it on a very high pedestal and once I got there it was it was good, but it wasn't what I had imagined and so within six months of being there, I immediately started to think about what I what I truly wanted to do.

[00:04:27] What was the Legacy that I would inevitably have to leave behind and the notion of starting a business had always been appealing to me and it was really about it was always about health. That was one of the things that I had always cared about. I've worked in consumer products a lot of media that was always fun.

[00:04:51] But the thing I kept coming back to was health. And so I started going down this path of figure out like oh what are some health technology businesses that would be cool. But at the end of the day, I kept finding myself coming back to nutrition and simultaneously around that time. I started talking to KLee about hey, what do you think about starting a company?

[00:05:14] I have some wacky ideas, like maybe we can share some stuff and you know that inevitably led me to KLee's living room one day and we sat down and had a serious conversation about quitting our jobs.  That was the genesis of immi, basically.

[00:05:32] So KLee, why don't you share a little bit more about why you decided to sit on the other side of the table next to me talk about this.

[00:05:45] KLee: Yeah so I'm not as much of a or I wasn't as much of like a health and wellness or nutrition junkie as KChan is. When I started out in the food industry and I will actually talk a little bit about our food backgrounds in a second. But in college my first foray into really just being interested in food actually came because I used to read a lot about this restaurant called el Bulli.

[00:06:13] It was named, best restaurant the world several years in the row and they're one of the pioneers of this term Molecular Gastronomy, which to be honest, you know, the founder and executive chef Ferran, he actually is not a big fan of that word. But to me, I really enjoyed reading about the science behind it and seeing how cool it was that a piece of food can look like something but tastes like something totally different.

[00:06:42] And so I would read all the cookbooks that they released and any news I could find online because it was so fascinating to me. How can you basically like shut off a restaurant for six months of the year, which is what they did and then use that time to operate in the lab create a whole menu and then only operate for the remaining six months.

[00:07:03] And the other thing too I really loved was they tried to make food accessible to everyone. So he made the price point fairly manageable for like a 40 course meal, even though he could have just sold it to a bunch of rich people and actually probably one of the reasons why I think they went out of business.

[00:07:17] I don't think they were operating very profitably. I had heard that they were making a lot of their money from like these cookbooks and look books that they were selling off-market.

[00:07:26] I really loved just like eating at these places, seeing how a kitchen was run. It's very organized. It's almost militaristic in a way like, you know, everyone's yelling at each other in the kitchen and the menus are just so interesting when you do a tasting menu, you just get all these different textures, tastes smells, all at once.

[00:07:47] So, I think the most ironic thing about this is that like when I first moved to San Francisco eight years ago, I was like the Soylent guy. So I loved eating out but on my day-to-day life, I did not like cooking. It just took so much time for me.

[00:08:03] KChan: And so I remember that I remember when I first met we worked together and I watched you eat you were very practical.

[00:08:11] KLee: Yeah, practical is probably the way to describe it. So I guess I was think maybe rationalizing like hey if I save money did a day and I just like eat all his bland stuff then I can occasionally splurge and go to like do a nice tasting menu somewhere in SF

[00:08:26] But it wasn't until I think when I turned like 25 or 26 where my whole body started breaking down, I remember KChan was there for a lot of it.

[00:08:34] Where like my knees I did this Ragnar Relay and I basically destroyed my knees and for two years I couldn't even run on concrete and then my hands and my arms started getting carpal tunnel. And my parents, they've had a pretty high blood pressure for a while.

[00:08:51] But my mom unfortunately contracted breast cancer and a lot of this caused me to start thinking about my diet and like how I basically cared about my health and my nutrition and I think that's where a lot of the overlap between me and KChan started to finally appear where I started do a lot more research myself.

[00:09:10] I noticed my parents were switching to a plant-based diet. I myself try to eat a little bit... I started just care a lot more. I became one of those box flippers where you actually flip the box when you go to the grocery.

[00:09:21] And I still to this day tend to follow a pretty standard just like a low carb diet wherever I can. KChan's obviously educated me a lot on different ways that I can improve my nutrition, but that's kind of a long-winded story behind my foray into the food industry.

[00:09:39] And then from a career perspective, we also yes similar as KChan, I was also a product manager. We were product managers together at a mobile gaming company called Kabam. Then I went to an education tech company called AltSchool and then, went to the Venture industry.

[00:09:56] And for the past two years, I was at a venture firm called Pear Ventures investing primarily in food and beverage business. So I was leading their food and beverage practice and then that's where me and KChan started seeing a bunch of opportunities and how we came to start immi.

[00:10:11] KChan: So getting back to that that moment where KLee and I met up with each other and decided to sit down in a room. We knew we wanted to start a company together, but it wasn't immediately obvious that we wanted to start a food company.

[00:10:26] In fact when we started we were like hey, like here's the here's two paths we can go. We can go consumer technology product which is you know, the space that we've been in or we can go food and bev because that's sort of where KLee was spending his time while he was at pair and it was actually a pretty interesting conversation because we talked about tech for maybe five minutes.

[00:10:48] Yeah. It wasn't that long like in terms of ideas. And then as soon as we got to Food and Bev, it was just a laundry list of ideas. It's just like how about this? How about that? How about yogurt? How about noodles?

[00:10:59] And the conversation ended up being... Wait wait! Noodles! How about noodles? And I think a lot of this stemmed from just our joint appreciation of noodles. It was something that helped cement our friendship to begin with.

[00:11:15] KLee: Actually, you should tell him a story about why how did that actually cement our friendship.

[00:11:19] KChan: So actually when we first when we first met each other was at our last company Kabam. We were on a work trip to Vancouver with each other, but we didn't really talk to each other and it was like one cold Vancouver morning.

[00:11:35] I remember I really wanted to go get noodles for breakfast because this is just something that I've always done. I grew up eating noodles and walked into this really crappy noodle joint actually.

[00:11:49] It was one of those Korean noodles joints that serve like instant ramen in a gourmet setting where they cook instant ramen, but they add a bunch of other toppings into it.

[00:11:58] And as soon as I walk in the door, like guess who I see, I see Kevin Lee sitting over there huddled over a bowl of noodles enjoying it by himself. at 8 a.m. in the morning, and that's actually how we first started talking. 

[00:12:12] KLee: It's a serendipity moment. But yeah, that was a I guess that was pretty much the start of our friendship and it's you know, it's been eight years since then and I guess we never really let that go so.

[00:12:27] I think for both of us we grew up eating noodles and like KChan said it's crazy because it sounds obvious in hindsight. But you know, when we started we did actually do like we tried to do some research and we would go to Whole Foods, you know with a notebook go up and down the aisles, try to look for opportunities, try to pick a category that makes sense.

[00:12:54] But at the end of the day like KChan said, you have to really pick a product that you care about that you love that you'd eat because if you don't care about that product that you're building especially in the food industry. Like how are you going to evangelize it to everyone else right?

[00:13:09] You're literally formulating this in day and day out, you're eating like the 200th version of the product that you're building if you're tired of it, you know within the first few days or you don't care about it you're not going to keep going when everything is breaking. So yeah.

[00:13:25] KChan: Definitely can't trust that passion piece enough. You can take a very academic mindset and try to approach it by looking at market sizes and saying like, oh, here's the biggest market size. Here's the under addressed opportunity and truth be told you'll probably be able to find something that's really massive.

[00:13:48] But if you're not excited to work on it, you're always going to find ways to become your own obstacle when approaching this project. We've seen it anecdotally with various folks who find a good category - they're not super passionate about it. They think there's an opportunity and as soon as the first roadblock comes where formulations don't work out, things don't taste good.

[00:14:10] It's too expensive to hire a food scientist to come work on this project and suddenly you're left in this position. Your options are should we just pivot to something else or should we persevere and keep moving forward? And if you're not super passionate about the project, it's really easy to just say, all right, let's just try something different which is, you know, not always the best thing to do.

[00:14:33] KLee: Definitely so KChan, we've talked a lot about our backgrounds, our foray into the Food and Health and Wellness space and nutrition.

[00:14:45] And on the noodle side. So after we decided hey, let's work on noodles. Can you talk a little bit about why have we created the type of noodle that we've created today? What led us to care about that type of macro nutritional profile. I think this this is what we were alluding to earlier about some of our family backgrounds.

[00:15:04] KChan: Yeah, that's a great question so just to give folks a little bit of context we're actually creating a low carb high protein instant noodle and the genesis of this is probably many-fold. I'll let you go into like the family history component, but it really came down to for me personally wanting to solve a problem that I was encountering.

[00:15:26] As KLee mentioned. I was obsessive on my nutrition. And I had gone down this path of wanting to eat extremely low carb and I wanted to solve my own problem. A big issue was that I just couldn't find anything that was low carbs, but I still wanted to eat noodles. So I found myself constantly breaking my own diet.

[00:15:48] I would make exceptions. I would go out to eat pho. I would go out to eat at ramen shops. I would tell my girlfriend. Hey, I'm actually on a low-carb diet and she's like why are you eating noodles? This makes no sense.

[00:15:59] And I soon realized that it was a problem that a lot of my friends were having as well. A lot of folks were on keto diets and they actually really miss noodles and dumplings funny enough, but that was the one thing that they constantly cared about and taking a step back the origin of why I cared so much about low-carb and the same reason why KLee cares so much about low-carb is really about the family history component and the impact of being Asian and eating a lot of high glycemic foods the toll it really took on our families.

[00:16:38] So KLee what why don't you share a little bit more about you know, some of your experiences of just this detrimental diet that you've experienced.

[00:16:48] KLee: So actually before we jump in, I think there's maybe an interesting point there so KChan and I previously we talked about how important is to find, you know a product that you really care about that you love and for us that was noodles and more specifically instant noodles or instant ramen as they call them in the US.

[00:17:05] The thing he just talked about is he said, you know for him it was a problem that he was facing where he was falling a low-carb diet and obviously noodles in the US and actually most noodles are they don't really help you follow a low-carb diet.

[00:17:18] And I think that's very similar again to myself. It was a problem that I faced when I was trying to eat low carb, we both love instant ramen we couldn't eat it and I think you have to follow that because a lot of companies are started from a personal pain point. Some of the best companies in the world were people who Founders who kept encountering a problem over and over and then realize like hey, if I built for this problem, there's probably more people in this world that are similar to me and then they extrapolate out.

[00:17:44] It's funny. This is almost opposite to how we were trained in product management where it's like hey, you are not your user.

[00:17:49] You should go validate this demand and we did do that. But at the end of the day, we had to build a company that we were passionate about and a problem that we were facing ourselves.

[00:17:57] Now what KChan was about to talk about with regarding our family backgrounds that's really important around the primary mission around why we've why we've focused our life's effort on immi, so KChan and I actually both grew up in food families.

[00:18:12] My grandparents are farmers in Taiwan. They grow something called a rose apple which is a fruit that's native to the Southeast Asian regions and KChan's Grandma used to run a noodle stand in Thailand. So he's literally was born for this and his dad immigrated to the U.S. and ended up starting an Asian supermarket as well as a distributor focused on Thai products, but just Asian food products in general.

[00:18:39] So, both of us we grew up in these food families, but what we noticed was especially in like the Asian demographic because we eat a lot of high-glycemic carbs, a lot of white rice a lot of noodles and then you know, you pair that with some of the seasonings and sauces that might have a little bit more on the sugar and salt, what ends up happening is a lot of the Asian demographic has very high rates of diabetes and high blood pressure.

[00:19:09] So for example, like, you know, my grandma is pre-diabetic. She had a stroke from high blood pressure that left her half paralyzed. Both my parents take medication for high blood pressure. KChan's grandfather actually passed away from stomach cancer.

[00:19:25] Right. So it's a systemic issue really because you know again it has to do with a diets that we're familiar with that are passed down from generation to generation. It's also just frankly like at least for the Asian demographic, it's part of the way that we store fat. So like we store visceral fat which leads to higher insulin resistance.

[00:19:46] So we tend to develop diabetes because of that. And I think we really saw this issue again with our own families and frankly every time we talked to a friend they were like, yeah, actually I have a family member who has diabetes as well and in the rest of America it's one of the biggest issues chronic health conditions.

[00:20:07] So we took that as inspiration because we said look this affects not just our families, you know, we are predisposed to it. But frankly, there are 300 million Americans in America who are you know at risk of contracting this especially in America where there's high, there's a lot of processed food.

[00:20:26] There's a lot of salt sugar and fat and a lot of our foods and that's a big reason but behind why we ended up wanting to work on as KChan mentioned a lower carb, higher fiber, higher protein instant ramen.

[00:20:41] KChan: Yeah. Yeah. It was one of those problems that we wanted to solve for ourselves and we actually found it to be quite extensible to a much larger population than we expected.

[00:20:55] So yeah now, you know a little bit about our backgrounds in Tech, you know a little bit about why we started this. I think the immediate question now is why were we equipped to do this? And so then this obvious question is like KLee what was your perspective when we decided to go into food and stuff not knowing anything about food and bev besides reading El Bulli's cookbook.

[00:21:20] KLee: And yeah. Yeah we so yeah, that's the funniest thing. I think we as you probably know by now, even though we grew up in food families, you know, we weren't day-in and day-out kind of working in this industry and not to mention like running a farm and running a noodle stand and a supermarket is very different from running a food cog company and I think a lot of inspiration behind this too is we have had we have seen some prior successes in this industry, for example one of our investors,  actually a couple of our investors come from a company called Kettle and Fire.

[00:21:59] They are a bone broth company that sells bone broth, you know online as well as now in retail. So then several thousand retails retail stores nationwide.

[00:22:10] A long time ago one of my close friends Wilson actually joined Kettle and fire and he had come from a tech background. The CEO Justin Mares also came from a tech background. Justin Mares was actually a growth marketer in tech at two venture backed companies and then realized hey, you know bone broth is really hard to make and there are there's also no shelf-stable bone broth in the market.

[00:22:33] It was all refrigerated and he him and his brother Nick Mares decided. Hey, why don't we start a bone broth company and apply everything we learn in the tech industry to this food and beverage industry and that's exactly what they did. They moved to Austin. They brought on Wilson as the employee number two, and they grew this company to a multi-million dollar annual revenue run rate and every time I talk to Wilson, I realized that you don't necessarily need a background in the food industry to succeed in the food industry.

[00:23:03] In fact, you may even bring a very unique perspective when you're cross-pollinating the skill sets that you learn from the tech industry and all of like the how to do split testing, how to do conversion rate optimization how to operate, you know with sprints and if you bring that to an industry that historically has been a little bit more on the analog versus digital.

[00:23:24] You can move it if much faster pace than a lot of other companies in this space who perhaps start out by going retail, doing a lot of these trade shows doing a lot of like in person demos. So I think KChan and I really looked at that as inspiration and we said well, we don't have a background in the food industry, but we're you know, hopefully smart people we were able to do okay in tech as product managers as investors. And we said hey, maybe if we surround ourselves with people in the food industry, learn as much as we can we might be able to figure this out.

[00:24:00] KChan: Yeah and per KLee's point, one thing I do want to touch on is while there's a lot of technical differentiation in terms of how do you take a product to market, at the crux of it, there's a lot of parallels to Tech and many other industries to begin with which is.

[00:24:20] How do you quickly ascertain what consumers truly want? I think the product thinking around that is not different because you know if we're competing for people's attention for web apps and services. Similarly, you're competing for mealtime and attention on shelves when it comes to food.

[00:24:40] I think a lot of that is actually more translatable than you would immediately assume but the more nuanced component about how to bring things to market you can actually fill in those gaps pretty easily. There's we've been blessed and fortunate that we've been able to meet a lot of great people in the industry.

[00:25:03] I will say that the food industry is incredibly friendly and surprisingly people do just want to help like even with zero strings attached which I find incredibly refreshing. It's amazing. Yeah, and it's a great space to be in and so a lot of the information and skill and experience that you would assume you would need before diving into space like this you can actually supplement that with just relationships and connections and getting to know people in the space and you know transferring whatever skill set that you're currently good at.

[00:25:37] It's probably more transferable in food than you would actually expect it to be.

[00:25:42] KLee: Totally I think to KChan's point. I think we're all in the same mission all of these food founders. You know, we just want to we want to create a food or beverage product that everyone can enjoy and hopefully it is better for them.

[00:25:55] So, you know not it doesn't necessarily even have to be better for them. It's just something that they enjoy because then you know, you've created value and you've made someone's day. Food and beverages are universal languages, right? It's not like you're not just building some Enterprise software product that only some Enterprise companies going to understand.

[00:26:11] You know your if you walk on the street and talk to a stranger. They don't know what the hell you're talking about with tech.

[00:26:16] With food, everyone gets it. The other day, we were sitting in like we were just kind of taking an Uber to a meeting and our Uber driver had actually been a restaurant owner himself and he immediately understood what we were talking about.

[00:26:30] He talked about how his wife and him had started this this or they had met the owners of this restaurant 24 years ago and they took over the business they ran it for 24 years. You know, it helped provide a life's, you know, a really good life for him and his family and it was just kind of cool to talk about that because then he started talking about how his son was studying Quantum Computing and we were like, well, we know nothing about that.

[00:26:53] So the conversation kind of died and it's just it's you know, that's the funny thing about food and beverages that it's again. It's a universal language everyone loves it. You don't need some people don't even think about it because it's just like it's a meal during your day, but it's so important.

[00:27:07] KChan: Yeah, and funny thing on that is that my parents have never known what I've done for a living for the last 10 years that I've been professionally employed. I've worked in various Industries and finance as well as Tech and they always ask me like, what do you do? But as soon as I told them that I was working on noodles, my dad is constantly texting me recipes, suggestions articles on restaurants because he just gets it, you know like that that product market fit of needing to eat something.

[00:27:43] It's just it's not such a reach and I think there's the complexity is in the nuance of food, but with that said, you know, so we decided we were gonna reinvent ramen.

[00:27:58] KLee, how did we initially validate the opportunity and decide that this was a good thing to move forward on?

[00:28:06] KLee: Yeah, so, you know for us even though we knew that this was the project we definitely wanted to work on we came from product management backgrounds, you definitely learn to validate demand before you invest a lot of time and resources into building a product.

[00:28:28] And for us in the early days, what we actually did was we built several landing pages using a service called Unbounce. They are a landing page creator. You can use them for a number of different things they're most popular for you to set up a landing page. They have a drag and drop interface where you can effectively design the page from scratch and I think KChan I think you actually built the first landing page.

[00:28:56] KChan: If I remember it was a complete garbage.

[00:28:58] KLee: No, it was actually pretty good in doing that.

[00:29:00] KChan: It was broken. You found out it was broken in the middle of it.

[00:29:02] KLee: It was not bad at all. KChan actually designed like this landing page. We put up some images that we made using Sketch.

[00:29:10] So it's super like super low budget. It had a mock-up photo of what our ramen product would look like, it had this like comparison table of like us versus all the other brands in the market. A showcase some of our macro nutritional profile. We didn't really elaborate too much on the ingredients because frankly we didn't even really know what the ingredients would be.

[00:29:33] KChan: Yeah, we didn't really know.

[00:29:37] KLee: And then the last thing we did was we actually used another service called celery try celery dot com if I remember.

[00:29:43] I think unfortunately they're sun setting the product. They're now-defunct. Yeah, they're now defunct so you'll probably have to find another service but the magical thing about celery was it was a widget that let you collect pre-orders. So it basically mirrored a checkout flow where someone could put in their credit card information, purchase the order and then their credit card information was stored and their money was actually held in escrow by celery.

[00:30:06] So it was as if the purchase fully went through except, you know, we didn't keep their money, of course, so we had a landing page with Unbounce with the celery widget and then KChan what did we do with that landing page?

[00:30:19] KChan: Actually, so we reached out to everybody who had made a purchase telling them hey, this product is not yet in production. We don't have it ready. We can't ship it. What would you actually like us to do with this?

[00:30:33] You have two options? We can refund you now or we can  ship it to you when we were ready and surprisingly I believe the number was about fifty percent of people actually wanted us to hold on to their cash and ship the product to them, which I found to be quite surprising given how crappily I had set up the website, but you know, we ended up refunding people because we had no sense for what the actual timeline would be for when we shipped it when we first ran this test, but it was such a powerful tool for us to de-risk this opportunity.

[00:31:14] It was it was immensely helpful for building our confidence that hey we're headed in the right direction. And this is an idea and an opportunity that actually has legs because people went through the trouble of taking out their credit cards punching in the number, placing an order and on top of that trusting that we would eventually fulfill these orders.

[00:31:35] So I that was that was huge in terms of making us feel like. Hey, this is a business where it warrants us leaving our full-time jobs.

[00:31:45] KLee: Definitely and KChan actually talked about kind of like that bottom part of the funnel there where it came to conversion where people were actually willing to put down their credit card.

[00:31:54] Just to rewind a little bit like the way it's actually very simple the way we even got those pre-orders to begin with was KChan actually because well it was kind of nice because it came from Facebook.

[00:32:03] So we had some Facebook ad credits but we were able to use some of them to basically run a few tests and we were able to drive traffic to the website and you know, we got a few people to convert click on the order and so you know, I think it's a little bit too early for us to care too much about like what the return on ad spend was.

[00:32:32] I think we can spend a whole other podcast talking about paid marketing and but for us it was more important to understand. Hey, what would people actually put down their credit card and purchase obviously our return on ad spend was positive.

[00:32:43] KChan: I don't think we would have pursued it was it was it was enough buffer for us to be comfortable with it. Yeah. It was definitely a good a good sign and yeah, like it to be completely honest this this was not an original idea. It was very heavily pilfered from the folks at kettle on fire.

[00:33:04] KLee: Yeah, we love the team at Kettle & Fire. They've been big supporters since day one in this business.

[00:33:09] KChan: And it's a great validation test Justin Mares has a great blog post about how he did this in the early days and you know been a huge evangelist of this methodology.

[00:33:20] KLee:  Awesome. So, yeah, I think we talked a little bit about how we came into this, our backgrounds our lack of backgrounds, in this space. How we picked instant ramen as a category and how we did a little bit of demand testing to know that there was going to be demand when we launched.

[00:33:38] In our next episode we are going to be talking a little bit about the actual formulation process. So. Okay, we know we want to create now how the hell do we actually produce the product?

[00:33:47] KChan: Thanks for joining us for the first episode of Feast and Fortune presented by immi.

[00:33:53]